Music Mind Lab Episode 1: Learning Music with Passion: Oliver Tan

About the Episode:

Despite the early age that many musicians begin learning their instrument, burnout and lost passion are overwhelmingly common. Many musicians struggle with tedious practice, parental pressure, and competition, and eventually lose the love for their instrument.

In this episode, violinist Oliver Tan speaks about starting his studies motivated by his love for music, his challenges and highlights while navigating various musical communities, and his advice for remaining passionate through the difficult journey of learning music.

About the Artist:

Oliver Tan, raised in the Greater Seattle area, began his musical studies at age 7 on piano and 3 years later on the violin at age 10, initially just playing with his school orchestra and two years later being admitted into the studio of John Kim. In the summer of 2024, he attended Interlochen Arts Camp for violin for 3 weeks on a partial scholarship, and there he was under the tutelage of Dr. Naomi Gjevre. Oliver has won top prizes at various local music competitions, including the Bach Festival and Classical Viennese Festival, and has served as concertmaster in the Seattle Youth Symphony Orchestras (SYSO). He participated in a chamber music workshop hosted by the Skryos Quartet in the summer of 2025, in which he studied Mendelssohn's first string quartet in A Major, and he has also performed the first movement of Schubert’s Cello Quintet in C Major. He currently serves as assistant principal second violin in the Junior Symphony in SYSO, and plays in the first violin section of his school orchestra. In his free time, he enjoys doing debate, going on runs, and listening to music. 

This interview has been edited for clarity.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

CAILEEN WAN, HOST:

Hello, everyone! Welcome to the first episode of the Music Mind Lab. My name is Caileen, and today I'll be talking with our very special first guest, Oliver Tan, about his musical experiences and words of advice.

So, to start off, Oliver, tell me a bit about yourself. What instruments do you play, and when did you start? 

OLIVER TAN, GUEST:

Yeah, so I play violin. I started in fifth grade with school, and it was on Zoom actually. So our teacher — Ms. Johansen — would have to teach us how to tune and hold violins on Zoom, which was a really interesting experience. But I think ultimately, it got me interested in playing because I always looked forward to it. And yeah, I just that's where I started. 

CAILEEN: What made you choose the violin out of all the other instruments? 

OLIVER: So basically, during COVID, Ms. Bentley (orchestra teacher) called my family, and she was like, we had two choices; it was either violin or viola. I had no prior knowledge, right? So, she said, the violin got the harder parts and the viola was the easier part, so I wanted a challenge, so I just chose the violin.

CAILEEN: Oh, that’s funny. Okay, and then, what made you continue? When did you start taking private lessons outside of the school orchestra? When did that happen? 

OLIVER: Yeah, so I was in fifth and sixth grade orchestra, and then I think I started private lessons the summer before seventh grade. So I asked Ms. J (Johansen) to send me a list of teachers, and I think I just tried Mr. Kim’s studio, who I'm currently with. I initially thought he was a little strict, but then I kind of concluded that it would be good for me to have a stricter teacher so I can improve more. 

I think the desire to have a private teacher… I guess my interest in the violin was growing throughout those formative years of playing. I think Ms. J saw that, so she allowed me to take on some leadership positions in the orchestra, and that motivated me and spurred me to take the initiative to look for a private teacher

CAILEEN: I know it was probably a huge change for you going from just playing in the school orchestra to going into a private teacher. So, can you talk a bit about what that experience was like for you? How exactly was it different? Was it a huge change? And how much you practice at home, and what was it like having a teacher like that all of a sudden? 

OLIVER: Yeah, so before I had a private teacher, school orchestra… was pretty chill, but I guess the way they taught us was by showing us, and it was very laid back. It was enjoyable but laid back. And then when I switched to having a private teacher, he made me start from square one, and it was pretty intimidating. But he made me buy a lot of etude books and taught me the specifics. So it felt… I knew I was making progress and it was good for me. But I definitely felt nervous, because I was pretty intimidated by our first meeting, so I probably over practiced the little Sevcik etudes. 

CAILEEN: Yeah, it's really cool to hear. Just going back to what you were saying earlier about how you felt like your interest was growing — the leadership position definitely sounds like it played a big role in helping you gain more interest. But also originally, I was just wondering, is there anything specific that drew you to becoming more interested in music, aside from just those leadership positions and it being a fun class?

OLIVER: Yeah, I think, my love for music ultimately stems from my enjoyment listening to beautiful sounds and music. I played piano prior to violin, so I had some experience with, you know, reading clefs in music or whatever. I think I just like the violin because I enjoyed making sounds with it. Just playing beautiful music, I think, was very inspiring to me. 

CAILEEN: That's very beautiful; I'm glad you say that. Also, I guess this is something that isn't as talked about as often, but I was wondering if you think your experience — starting in school orchestra and then getting a private teacher later — how that might have compared with other peers who may have started with private teachers from the beginning, because I know a lot of people have very different starting points for their musical experience. I was wondering if that was something you thought about at all and if that impacted you? 

OLIVER: Yeah, I've definitely thought about that. So, I think it's very interesting, because often the students who start when they're very little with a private teacher are pushed a bit by their parents to start that way, right? Whereas, for me, the reason I got a private teacher was out of my own interest and because I like the violin. So I think obviously, if you start earlier, you're gonna progress a lot and become very skilled. But I think, also, there's some value in doing it for yourself, and that is a strong motivator. Because you're driven by your own passion, it’s definitely healthy, and I think it's a great way to pursue something. 

CAILEEN: For sure, and I think what you said really resonated with me because I'm kind of like the earlier case … where I was pushed more by my parents at least earlier on. Because practicing is a very much self-monitored, self-motivated activity, that was a big struggle for me, especially in the beginning of my journey. I was wondering for you — especially considering you've improved so much and you're an incredible musician now — how did you keep up with practicing in the beginning? Was that entirely self-motivated as well? Was that a challenge, or how was that for you? 

OLIVER: Yeah, I think in the beginning, I was just really enjoying… I really liked the violin; I still do now. In the beginning, when I was practicing, it was pretty much self-motivated, and that first summer I think I made a decent amount of progress. I just wanted to show up prepared to every lesson, and I just enjoyed working through the etude books. That sounds weird, but I thought it was cool. I was just very fascinated about the stuff he was giving me, so I definitely practiced diligently the first few years, and then in high school fell off a bit practicing wise.  

CAILEEN: Everyone does. Don't worry. And you also mentioned summer. And I know it wasn't what exactly you were talking about, but I know you did go to a summer camp, right? A music summer camp. Can you talk a bit about that and how that might have affected your musical experience?

OLIVER: Yes, so I went to Interlochen — a three-week session. I think first, getting into that was huge. I was just super happy to be accepted, and that was a huge confidence booster I guess. I didn't really expect to be accepted. But going there? I know that camp has a huge reputation for being really prestigious and being like an old school camp. I think the experience of it was definitely very different from what I expected. It was very fun and the people there were — not the teachers — but the counselor was very laid back.

And then, when I first landed there, the first thing we did was an audition to decide which orchestra you'd be accepted into. So they had one called the Concert Orchestra and the Youth Symphony Orchestra. The Youth Symphony Orchestra was the higher level. So, I was pretty panicked for that, because prior to the camp, I was traveling, so I just practiced while I was traveling, which was obviously not ideal. 

So I ended up getting to the Concert Orchestra. And I was pretty upset about that initially because I had higher hopes, and I was pretty disappointed. But I think it ultimately gave me a reality shock or a glimpse into the real world for people who are very critical of your playing. And there's a lot of competition. It was pretty intimidating being in the music building, because of the professors and teachers. Even though my teacher was very kind to me, I would walk by lessons of kids getting like [inaudible] and stuff. But yeah, it was a good experience. 

CAILEEN: Yeah, you seem to have been talking about some challenges or the more difficult parts that you encountered at the camp. I was wondering, were there any — especially considering your relationships with, maybe other peers there, or maybe other people that you met — were there any highlights, or really positive moments from the camp that you recall? 

OLIVER: Yeah, I think the Interlochen camp is like an orchestra camp, right? So it's different from, like, Center Stage Strings, which is more of a solo focused camp. It's like more orchestra, so I think our conductor was very, very good. I learned a lot from her, and I liked her a lot. I think she taught me a lot of things about being a good orchestra player. I'm not sure you would agree with my orchestra playing. 

CAILEEN: No, no, you’re great. You're great. 

OLIVER: She taught us a lot about how you have to move, and how cueing is valuable, even if you're not in the front of the section, and how to have good orchestra etiquette and really shine in your section. I learned a lot from that, as well as practicing in the little wooden cells that they had. Oh yeah, it wasn't the most aesthetic practice room, but it really taught me how you can utilize your time well to practice. 

CAILEEN: For sure. And just talking more about orchestra. You're a part of a lot of other orchestral or musical ensembles outside of Interlochen, right? You've been in the Lakeside orchestra, SYSO, and also chamber. Could you talk a bit about those experiences and what you've learned or maybe gained from those? 

OLIVER: Yeah, so besides Lakeside School Orchestra, I am in SYSO, the Seattle Youth Symphony Orchestras during the year. And in the summer I’ve done some chamber stuff. So we're talking about SYSO — I think I saw a decent amount of success in SYSO. So obviously, that influences my opinion, but I think it was pretty good. The first term, I surprisingly got concertmaster, which was surprising. It was really fun, because obviously being in that role offers a lot of opportunity and also responsibility, so it was good for my development for me to step into that role. That kind of playing in a group outside not only forces you to learn more repertoire but also allows you to see other musicians in the Seattle area… and how they play, which is really cool to meet other really good musicians. 

CAILEEN: For sure. And about chamber, are you also going to talk about that a bit more?

OLIVER: In the summer, I did Chamber Music Guild, which is the chamber workshop locally. I can't remember if I did a separate one. I think that was it. It was good; I think I'd recommend it to other people. We played Mendelssohn Quintet. I guess chamber music also applies to Lakeside because we have a music unit at school, right?

CAILEEN: Right.

OLIVER: So I think chamber is a pretty cool experience, and I honestly probably like it more than playing solo, because I guess for me, it's like it's a bit less pressure, even though it is important that you play really well. I guess you're a bit less exposed, and also it's a bonding experience between you and your other chamber music partners. And I really like how you can combine your parts together to make really beautiful music. And I think that's why I enjoyed orchestra so much in those early years of me playing, because I just thought we sounded really good together — even though we probably didn’t from the outside — but I thought we did. And I liked how I was able to play a part in that music making. 

CAILEEN: For sure. I think also something that’s interesting between orchestras and chamber, is because orchestras are led by conductors and section leaders during sectionals, but with chamber, it's really self-organized and self-dictated during rehearsals. So, I was wondering, have you encountered any challenging rehearsals, or maybe a time when you've had some disagreements where you had to work through that in rehearsal? And how was it like having the experience of having to step up and maybe take a leadership role?

OLIVER: I think chamber music has definitely taught me a lot about leadership. I think how you approach it probably has a difference based on what your setting is. For example — if you're playing with your friends for fun, versus if you're getting paid to play, like a gig — you’d probably approach it differently, but I think ultimately the people in the group have to get along, and you should lead in a way that they want to follow you. [You] shouldn't be like a dictator or force them to do stuff.

But I think definitely leading by example is good. Also, if you want them to learn their part, you should probably know your part really well first, and check in with them individually if there's an issue that's popping up. I have experienced some people not focusing in rehearsal — myself included — so I think speaking from yourself first and talking about how you can improve first is good for resolving issues like that. But yeah, I think generally, just embracing that group environment and trying to really have fun is helpful. 

CAILEEN: Circling back to something you were saying earlier… sharing your experiences in SYSO, where you got to meet a lot of new musicians from the Seattle area. Drawing from my own personal experience, I've definitely felt really intimidated when I meet new people and see how experienced they are, especially when I first joined SYSO. So I was wondering, in your experiences of meeting people and joining new musical communities, has that been something you've experienced as well, like, intimidation or comparison?

OLIVER: Yeah, with meeting new people, I think definitely it can bring stress, especially if they're a lot better than you. But I think personally, I'm someone that has a habit of comparing myself to others. So I think often it can crush your self-esteem, but it can be helpful to learn to channel those emotions into motivation, or practice harder, because obviously it's not the first time you're gonna meet someone that's better than you, right? There's always going to be someone that's better than you, but it's good to learn how to deal with that. And I think ultimately, how to approach those interactions [is] with a lot of kindness and respect instead of disdain or jealousy, and to make them your friends so you can have someone to learn from and mentor you, I guess.

CAILEEN: That's really inspiring, and I really resonate with that for sure. In the same vein of managing stress and in personal relationships, I was wondering, how do you manage stress and anxiety of playing on stage?

OLIVER: Yeah, so for performance anxiety, I think there are a few things that can help. The first is stress when you're practicing right, so I guess for the performance, you just have to be ready. So that means practicing smart and for long enough periods of time. I saw this video: it was James Ehnes talking about practice habits. And he talked about how, when you're practicing, you should always be very aware, because in a concert hall, you're always gonna be asking yourself what you're doing and why you are doing it. So you should have those questions answered when you're practicing so you can be very confident and like what you're doing. 

I think also for performance anxiety, just having a lot of practice performance opportunities is very helpful. For example, playing for your friends and family often. Or if you like Tonic, you can use it. Just having those opportunities will get you more used to that environment. I think breathing exercises can also help a bit with calming nerves in the short term right before you're about to perform, but also a mindset change [is helpful]. Thinking about the performance as an opportunity to showcase all the work that you've done and serenade your audience is good, because it's not like they're towering over you. You get to share your music with them. 

CAILEEN: Wow, that was really well said for sure. Okay, so this is a great segue into the next section about practice techniques. You talked a bit about how to practice before you go on stage to prepare yourself mentally. I was wondering, going back to what you were saying about your love for etudes technique practice, do you have any tips for practicing technique?

OLIVER: I think for technique, I've definitely struggled a lot with different aspects of technique, but one very important pillar of practicing is slow practicing, so you should always practice slow. And my teacher would say — practice at a speed where you can't make mistakes. So I think that's something that all musicians should keep in mind and also something that I can work on. I also think that a tip for practicing — I guess this is specific to your left hand — using rhythms. Or for your bow arm, focusing on bow distribution and details, like what angle your bow is facing. And if you're learning a piece, practicing it in chunks instead of trying to tackle the whole piece at one time. Simplifying passages — for example, taking out trills or fast notes — and focusing on learning the framework of a passage, does that make sense?

CAILEEN: For sure. And did you learn all of these from your teacher, or did you learn some of it from the internet or by yourself when you're practicing?

OLIVER:  Yeah, I think most of it is from my teacher, but some is also from other musicians and from the internet as well. 

CAILEEN: Going more towards the topic of mentorships — what was the most valuable piece of advice you ever got from someone? Or it could just be a little thing that someone said that deeply impacted yourself as a musician.

OLIVER: I think for me, I was writing an article for Tatler about our resident student rapper at our highschool. And something he said to me is that when you make music, ultimately, it has to be for yourself, and it shouldn't be for anyone else, and you have to enjoy it. That's what matters most. And that really resonated with me and stuck with me, because that reminds me that the reason I play violin should always be for myself. If I don't — if I stop enjoying it, or if I feel like it's a source of stress for me more than it is a source of joy or happiness — it's a sign I should rethink what I'm doing and how I can approach the instrument differently. 

CAILEEN: That was really inspiring. Okay, now I'm moving towards some lighter topics. Do you have any musical hot takes, any opinions, or specific things that you think musicians should do more or less of? This is your time to shine and tell all of your advice that you might have for any other musician. 

OLIVER: I think that one thing that's very important is to practice every day for a shorter amount of time, and that's better than practicing inconsistently for longer periods of time. So this is something Julia Fisher said: have some time for and with your instrument, daily. And then record yourself when you're practicing a lot. I feel like often — for me at least — when I practice, I really try to avoid mistakes in places where I'm afraid of messing up. I kind of try to avoid those mistakes or errors instead of trying to correct them, which is a bad habit. And I think that recording yourself can really force you to practice in a higher pressure environment, because if you're recording for a competition, it's good practice. And also, it can really allow you to see how you sound, which can be different. If you're playing a passage for two hours and practicing it, the way you hear yourself is going to be different than how others hear you and how you actually sound, so that allows you to hear yourself properly and make any changes when you're practicing.

CAILEEN: For sure. Since we don't have much time left, do you have any questions that you want to ask or anything specific you want to talk about? 

OLIVER: For you, my question would be: what are your tips for performance, or like, kind of, not selling in a performance?

CAILEEN: Wonderful question. I don't know if I'm too qualified because I still do sell, but I think a lot of it comes from confidence. And I feel like everyone says, oh, just be confident, just have fun, but no one really tells you how to be confident. When you go on stage, you can't just turn yourself into a different person or give yourself a different mindset immediately. 

Obviously, a huge part of the confidence comes from practicing, as you said — making sure that you're really well prepared and also practice performances. But I also think a longer term solution to that is finding a community; finding a community of support. 

When I went to summer camp, the reason why I felt so secure and so happy going on stage — like, that was my first time I ever stepped on stage, and I felt really happy to be there; it was insane — because all of my friends were out in the audience, cheering for me at the top of their lungs. Just having that support and love and warmth can really give you an incredible amount of confidence and actually makes you play better. I swear my performance at summer camp where I was surrounded by people that I loved and I knew was probably the best live performance I'd ever had, and it was so surprising to me because I really was not expecting that.

So I think as you mentioned earlier, trying to treat everyone you meet with love and respect is definitely really important; not just investing for mentorship opportunities, but also when you actually go on stage, being supported by your audience or having friends come to performances to support you… is really powerful. And even if you're gonna send the video to your friends later or if your friends are watching backstage, just knowing that you have that support system really elevates your performance. 

OLIVER: Okay, thank you. 

CAILEEN: And finally, just to close things off: what's a final message or word of advice that you'd like to share to everyone who's listening right now?

OLIVER: I think I have two main ones. The first one is to make sure you always enjoy playing your instrument, whatever it is. Because that way you'll stay motivated to do it, and you'll have a healthy relationship with it. You’ll keep seeking opportunities to learn and grow. So focus on being happy when you are playing it. 

The second one is to be kind to others and yourself. This is general and it might sound disconnected, but I think being kind to others allows them to give to you as well, because you get out what you put into it, right? So, if you are kind to others, they'll be there and support you, as you talked about, which will help you. And being kind to yourself will help you not get burnt out and help you maintain a healthy relationship with your instrument and music in general.

CAILEEN: Perfect. Thank you so much, Oliver, for talking with us today. It was a huge pleasure, and I learned so much from you, and I'm sure everyone listening to this learned a lot as well. Also, thank you so much to our audience for listening. I hope every one of you enjoyed this episode. And please look forward to the next episode, which will be released next week.